tv MSNBC Live MSNBC August 5, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT
to come into its areas. >> richard, thanks so much. the great reporter richard angle in mogadishu. i hope we can help. that's "hardball" for now. we sowe are so lucky to be here. more politics ahead with al sharpton. can president obama get re-elected in this economy? yes he can. but republicans are still playing the blame game. plus a silver lining in the debt fight. americans got a close-up look the at tea party. and they don't like it. and we're just hours away from rick perry's big prayer rally. now a major civil rights group is getting involved. >> welcome to the show. i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead, instead of helping create solutions to deal with the economy, republicans
just pile on the blame. after yesterday's plunge on wall street, the economy got a little better. some better news today, the markets finished up. and the monthly unemployment rate dropped slightly to 9.1%. the economy added 117,000 jobs in july. but the gop all news is bad news. and all bad news is the president's fault. john boehner, the man who got, what he said, 98% of what he wanted, in the debt deal, he took no blame. he said today's numbers showed that the democrats have created more fear, more uncertainty and more debt. meanwhile, eric cantor said, quote, the president remains out of touch on these tough economic issues. today only the president urged both parties to come together and get the people back to work.
>> what i want the american people and our partners around the world to know, is this. we are going to get through this. things will get better. and we're going to get there together. >> in the last few weeks, we have showed you how republican policies got us into this hole. the question is, will the american people trust the same failed gop agenda to dilg us out. joining me now, is msnbc, political analyst, richard wolffe and former rnc chair michael steele. richard, will voters really trust republicans to get the economy moving, that the republicans in my judgment, was the ones that got the economy where it is today? >> well, a statement of the obvious for starters. this is obviously the president's weak spot. it effects real people with a
real political impact. if you look at the polls. see the numbers out of the poll this beek, there is a big gap between how much people trust the president and how much people trust and blame the president for the political problems we have. when you ask who do you trust for the economy. 43% say the president. 33% say republicans an congress. when you say who do you blame for deficit and debt problems, they don't blame this administration, they blame the last one. 41% versus 14% blame the obama administration. the american public is to blame the republicans and bush administration more than this president, even though they are unhappy with him. >> michael steele, does that mean that republican party is, like political humpty dumptys. whatever they do, they can't put together their credibility again? the people are not buying all the spin? >> well, obviously that's not
true. if that's the case we wouldn't have had the landslide sweeps that we had last november. that time the issue was healthcare. democrats clearly had the upper hand. messaging up to a point on healthcare. and the same is true here in this environment. the reality still remains that 9.1% unemployment is not the 8% unem ploim the president talked about. let's see where we are next august. the. >> the polls are saying -- >> reverend, let me finish my point. >> yes, sir. >> then let us get us to next august, see where the economy and see where the job numbers are. then you will have a better assessment of how people translate their support or lack of support from the president. >> are you finished? >> for the moment. >> thank you. so kind of you for the moment. let me say this. the poles speck differently. . in fact, since you site electiones this year, he had one this year in upstate york.
>> it is not a -- >> let me finish. it was expected to win. so elections can be cited more recently than the one you did to disprove your point. let me also deal with this fact. >> you stop within rev -- >> no, let me finish. since you're in the finishing mode this friday, let me finish. since he took office, s&p 500 is up 41% since his inauguration. isn't the fact that wall street is doing better and improving the standing in the economy since obama was i nag rated. won't that matter to voters next august as you raise the point. >> you guys talk out of both sides of your mouth. >> what are you talking about? >> the democrats talk out of both sides of their mouth. i assume that includes new this case. >> yeah. >> because the reality of it is
is one minute you are beating the hell out of wall street and con testimonying them for their grooe greed, now you are citing how well the economy is doing and wall street numbers. you can't have it both ways. you cannot sit there and say -- >> oh, okay i understand your confusion. you think because -- >> you think wall street is doing well because of obama's numbers. >> no. mr. steele, as an indicator of the economy has nothing to do with excusing those that are greedy and grabby. just a minute. you raised a point that i think begs an answer. just to try and act like we can't use factual indicators from wall street and say that that does not excuse the policies that wall street has been given, basically under deregulation from your party, is
not -- it's like mixes apples an oranges noz snoz, this is an apple to apple comparison. if you know anything about how the financial markets work, and i assume you do, this is part after cyclical process. you can't pull one chunk out and stick it in with you sm place else. you don't get to have it both ways reverend. as much as you would like to. you can't -- you can't demon eyes will guys that you are trying to put in obama ae lap. >> the indicators that make that statement, you made your point, it doesn't make sense, you but made it. let me ask you something, richard. the polls, we can't argue about the polls. let's go by the polls. the polls that i'm sure both of you would have to regard has clearly come out saying that most americans want to see higher taxes. and that they're not buying the republican lie. the new york times polls says all voters say that those making
over $250,000 should be paying more. 63% of all voters. 80% of all democrats. but what is very interesting here richard, is 52% of republicans are saying that. >> right. >> what do you make of this? >> traditionally, when democrats go into an election saying they will raise taxes, it is generally a losing situation. this looks like different territory. if republicans want it play the tax card in this case and say, all taxes are bad, they are going to be out of step even with the majority of their own voters and certainly with independent critically the central block here. i've also got to pick up something that the chairman was just saying. because he comes out with a talking point of 8%. the president promising it won't go abut that. they have the transition before huge job losses of january and february of 2009. let's just have a little context here. i know people are scoring
political points. but actually, the big job losses happen in the -- >> you got to give credit. >> and obama wrapped himself all around that 8% an drove it as long as he could until it didn't wear well. >> michael, the job losses came in the first few months -- >> you seem to have a problem with facts today. >> oh, yeah. >> eric cantor said, about unemployment today, so you won't argue the fact, i'll play you what he said. let's see if you can argue his own lips movie. >> for too long in washington now we've been worried about pumping up the stimulus moneys, pumping up unem plim benefits. i think those on unemployment benefits would rather have a v a job. >> you are not in favor and will go against the president's wishes to extend the unemployment benefits. >> what i have said all along,
jim, is if we are going it spend money in washington we have to set priorities. if you are going to spend money, we bet are cut money somewhere else. >> so eric cantor says we have to deal with priorities. point blank that he disagrees with the president on unemployment insurance. we says we have to spend money somewhere else. you don't think that the reason american public are looking at the republican party as insensitive 37. what is more than extending those that are unemployed, some becoming chronically unemployed because of policies for your party as reign in office. >> our party is reign in office and 3 million jobs were lost in the obama years. so the reality is this -- >> you don't want me to put up the figures of what was lost in the bush years, do you? >> you can put up a will the figures you want. >> why don't you deal with cantor statement. >> i am. the jobless number is an
artificial number because it doesn't take in account those nokes who gave up looking because there are no jobs created right now. cantor is absolutely right. why are we looking to just extend benefits when we shoes take the resources and put them towards creating the job so someone can get a full salary and not a benefit from government that keeps them tagged in for 90 days. take what few resources with 2k0e have to the best possible use to crow ate jobs. it is nice to have the president talk about creating jobs for the fours time in his term. how many job summits have we had? how many meetings have we had? at what point, instead of bilking millionaires, putting that money in a way that small business owner with do what small business owners do and larger corporations begin to make the what they make and the economy will become to charm. . >> richard, let me go to you.
i know my friend michael steele was -- i didn't know he was a filibustering senator. we weren't talking about any of what he answered. >> oh, my gosh. >> when cantor was asked about extending unemployment insurance, he did not say, let's take that money and put it into other priorities. prs fr. >> creating jobs, al. creating jobs. >> will you address about extending 99ers. >> the problem here is that apparently, the private sector isn't short money. to get these unemployment people into jobs, can you cut their benefits tomorrow. they want a job. the question is, are you prepared to cut them off and give them no benefits and say, you're on your own here. while these companies figure out whether or not they can hire. michael steele talked about investments but the investments in this case is about cutting
spending in government. cutting spending in the public sengtor. that means losing 37,000 jobs in today's statistics while the private sector was ramping up jobs, prior at sector was cutting back jobs. >> people are losing their jobs and benefits. another no way to stimulate the economy. >> so people i guess are supposed to -- richard wolffe, michael steele, thank you. we are grateful to you, michael, that you came by and clarified the republican point of view ps jumping up, the view vast right wing, a single new conservative group that helps corporations literally write our law. to help their bottom line. but first, tea party on ice. new polls show they are less popular than ever.
how do you stop them from driving the debate here in washington. >> and living on a prayer. americans of all faiths are speaking out against rick perry's controversial prayer rally tomorrow. could this hurt his presidential ambition? [ female announcer ] it's time to raise the bar and replace your old mayo with the full flavor of kraft mayo with olive oil. ♪ made with half the fat and calories of hellmann's real mayo... ...kraft mayo with olive oil is the new standard in mayo. a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say.
trouble is brewing for the tea party in the wake of the debt ceiling crisis. the latest new york times cbs poll finds 40% of americans now disapprove of the tea party. just 20% approve. the tea parties disapproval rate has more than doubled since last april. and check this out. a recent poll of democratic and republican lawmakers finds majorities in both parties believe the tea party will have less influence in 2012 than it did last year. so is it time for main stream republicans to disstance themselves from this extreme right wing? and how do democrats stop this unpopular movement from driving the debate here in washington? watching me now and joining me for this discussion is joe madison, a sirius xm radio host and tony, a syndicated columnist and former newt gingrich press secretary. thank you both for being here.
>> thank you. >> joe, help me read the tea leafs here, pun intended. isn't it time to margin lies this movement? >> the way you marginalize it, is i would pick up on something john conniers said in a caucus meeting. you're not going to change any of the tea party leadership's mind about what we do no more in the 60s you would change the dixie krats and democratic party. what we need to do, i think as john proposed, is stay true to our base. educate america. this is why you are seeing these polls the way they are. people got educated and this debate we had about raising the debt ceiling and they saw how this sausage, and that's when a we refer to to it, the mess of how to make sausage and they didn't like it and i think
that's who the polls reflect. so stay true to our base. i think educate the president that he's got to do something bold, and let me make this quick so tony doesn't accuse me of monopolizing time, let me take this real quick, i think you go into districts where you have shovel-ready projects, potholes, highways, and the call the people out. call them out. they don't want safe bridges. they don't want highway jobs. matter of fact, they don't think these are real jbs and watch people turn on them. >> well, tony, you think the tea party is great, don't you? i mean, how do you respond to the parent draught, immense draught in popular snit. >> i'm an enthusiast of the tea party. if the new york times poll is right then it is almost ex olympicable. pelosi ehaven'tly and half of the democrats got driven to over seven months of washington politics to be driven into the
tea party position on the deficit. everybody in town left and right said they won this political battle. they won because the president and others understand that tea party is pushing, driving a very substantial part of the voting electorate. you can cherry pick polls and we all do that for our convenience. the reality is that the public is terrified about the economy. they are terrified about the housing that we all of us our housis are worthless and then this sort of economic catastrophe we are sliding into, the entire political class is being harshly judged by the public. left, right and center. and i think that republicans, democrats, both are likely to pay a price next election year. but of course the supreme -- >> i would agree with you. >> i would agree with you that there is a price paid but i don't know if the people paying
it is who you think. >> we'll find out. >> first of all, you paraphrase mark twain. rumors of the tea party's success may be proven to be premature. >> let me give you another mark twain -- >> you republicans like to have your time and don't want nobody to answer. >> let's look at what was achieved. we see what they wanted to do in terms of having this debt revisited the end of this year, they lost that. the pentagon budget was cut more, cut since the 90s, they lost that. social security, medicaid, medicare sun touched. i don't know if the tea party had the big victory they think you had. let me show you something else, john boehner. >> john boehner is not going to be running for president. >> his approval numbers jumed, disapproval, 57%. that's up from 41%. is boehner getting dragged down by the tea party?
therefore, if any of the canned candidates running, if they get too close to the primary, will they get dragged down like john boehner? >> i don't think so. on the new york times poll, i could go into the internals on it. they overweigh the democrats by 8%. every other poll, gallup, shows 41%. so i think the poll is out. but that doesn't matter. the fact is that the fundamentals of the american economy will drive. and if the congress doesn't deal with it effectively, he and his party will pay a big price. >> this is my argument. the president at least says, i'm -- we have to create x number of jobs and spend x number of money, we didn't do that. he admits we didn't do that. we didn't do it, he fell shortd.
obviously he created more jobs than the last administration did. it's not enough. we know that. here is my position, okay, guys, then how many jobs have you created, will you create and in what timeframe? i ask that question on my show, tony, all week long. how many jobs will you create and when will they be created? and i challenge people to call in. do you know for one solid week this week, i didn't get one call because the tea party hasn't introduced one job creating bill. not one. >> tell us what it is, tony. what is the plan of the tea party to create jobs. >> look, the tea party has two policies they are trying to get. they want to reduce the debt and the size of government. >> how do you produce jobs. >> let me finish at least a couple of sentences. >> the fundamental problem and the reason they are alienated is that entire class doesn't have
an answer it these problems. we are getting more and more scared everyday. the tea party is one voice thp they are representing a lot of rep representatives. that's why the country is so scared. >> so i ask you and joe was quiet and i was quiet, what is the tea party's plan and you just spent the minute telling me about how nobody had a plan so i guess the answer is, the tea party has to plan. >> i told you -- >> james brown us eed to say-just can't cut it. you're talking loud and saying nothing. >> you are a very polite gentlemen. >> thank you both for being with us tonight. >> health coverage for women's birth control, inherent job growth, and lead to the death of our civillization. by the way, insurance for viagra is just great. it is our con job of the day.
also, we've heard rick santorum say some nutty things. but wait until you hear what he says about preschool. we'll be right back. ♪ let me entertain you ♪ let me make you smile ♪ let me do a few tricks ♪ some old and then some new tricks ♪ ♪ i'm very versatile ♪ so let me entertain you ♪ and we'll have a real good time ♪
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health department issued new guidelines for women's preventative health services. the rules say insurance companies can't charge co-pays for contraceptive,ierly yearly checkups, support and domestic violence screening. this is riling up the right. >> why should we pay for a man's viagra? >> because that is a medical -- that's a medical -- >> before the affordable care act some insurance plans wouldn't cover birth control. >> that's a medical problem. >> so women's birth control shouldn't be covered but viagra should? that's interesting logic. the move as has iowa congressman steve king worried too. >> preventing babies from being born is not medicine. that's nuts. that's not constructive to culture and civilization. if we get our birthrate down
below our replacement rate, we are a dying civilization. >> personally i think the end of our civilization will come when men like steve king get to make choices about women's health. finally bill o'reilly thinks this new rule will somehow hurt the economy. >> the federal government it ordering the health insurance companies to pay for all breast-feeding stuff, all female birth control stuff, all preventative measures for doctors for a ladies that go in, what do you think that's going to do? that's going to effect hiring even more. >> from a fiscal point of view, you would think these people would access more support for birth control since it cost taxpayers up to $11 billion. as it is, the right wing uses bogus economic and faulty logic for their women's health.
ahead, new trouble for rick perry's big prayer rally tomorrow. one of his coordinators called the democratic party, quote, an invisible net worth of evil. is this really who perry wants on board for his potential run? but first -- >> ♪ i'm just a bill ♪ yes only a bill sitting here on capitol hill ♪ >> many of americans grew up with the schoolhouse rock idea of how bills become law. the reality today is very different. we will show you how they support laws all across america. one little smile, one little laugh. honey bunny. [ babbles ] [ laughs ] we would do anything for her. my name is kim bryant and my husband and i made a will on legalzoom.
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wave of radical republican bills that are suspiciously similar. for example, voter id bills have been introduced in 34 states. and anti-union bills have been proposed in 29 states. this is not just coincidence. these bills are the work of a very secretive and very powerful group called the american legislative exchange council. alec for short. they help corporate executives literally write model bills for your state legislators. the proof is in black and white. here is a model voter id bill from 2009. quote, any person designed to vote in this state shall present proof of identity to election officials when appearing to vote. app n an arkansas voter id bill from this year, quote, any person desiring to vote in this can state shall present proof of -- wait a minute, thalt the
same bill. the wofrding is eye dental cal. last year alone, 826 alec model bills were introduced in the states. covering everything from big oil to big tobacco. 115 of them became law. right now, alec is holding its annual conference in new orleans. where they are busy writing next year's laws. doing the work you elected your state law makers to do. joining me is now executive director of the senate for media and democracy, a watch dog group that originally broke the story. lisa, this is so incredibly blatant, it is hard it believe. >> it is shocking, reverend, on alec.org, they rewrite our laws, that's startling. the fact is that just down the street from us, right now, this after not in, corporations have been voting behind closed doors
along with politicians on these model bills to change our rights. it is unbelievable that this is hooping in america. >> now, when you say that corporations are voting with electioned officials, you mean that they are actually sitting in sessions, where the corporate leaders are writing law that will later after some of these officials propose them in legislative bodies. >> they bring their wish list to the task forces of alec, then vote along side elected representatives in favor of those bills. those bills are then introduced in state houses across the country, cleansed from the fact h they came from alec and certainly cleansed from the fact that a corporation prevoted, preapproved those bills through alec's task force process. >> now, what bothered me about your story and some of your revelation says clearly a lot of
these laws are deal be with voter id, something i worked on all my life, voter rights and the founder of alec, a conservative activists named paul wayrick, some some of the most outrageous things about voting i have ever heard tp take a look at this. >> i don't want everybody to vote. elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country. they are not now. as a matter of fact our leverage in the election, the voting pop louse goes koun. >> now, how can someone that has such a blatant disregard for voting openly say that and openly say it is better when we have less people vetting. why should corporations be supporting his organization. that's amazing because paul founded this organization in
1973. there was a surge in voter registration bills that came out of the 1993 clinton initiative to expand voter registration. those bills were considered to be racist largely because they were in response to the fact that african-americans were registering to vote in the 09s. but all of a sudden, after the 2008 election, after so many college 1250uant voted and president obama won, alec's board, its corporate tax forces along with the politician board voted to approve voter registration bills that as you point out have been speeding through straight houses akos the country. stim lar or same provisions. why these corporations, why kraft foods, why corporations like coka cola want to go along with this. why thnt didn't walk when voter ids were pushed through alec, i have no idea. but they should be held
accountable. >> so some of the corporations which you have named here and some you haven't, but these are major corporations that enjoyed a consumer dollar of people that they are really helping it finance groups to put in state law to undermine their voting. >> these corporations say they didn't vote in favor of that particular bill. but in the case of kraft and coka cola and other companies, they sit on the board of alec, they bank roll alec and have been there since the task force, supported by other corporations and they have not -- >> thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> ahead, just one day away from rick perry's prayer rally. can you feel the excitement in believe it or not, rick santorum is still running for president. and he is whining about the
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six unarmed people were shot. two were killed. prosecutors say that after the shooting, the offices made up witnesses, falsified reports and even brandted a gun to throw off investigators. in the end, the men were convicted of charges of covering up the shootings, four were convicted of civil rights. none were convicted of murder. but the mother of one of the victims says the justice has been done. >> they took the twinkle out of my eye and blew out my cam but it's going to be all right because justice has been served. >> many of us that have questioned when police good over the line or what those that we trust with the law break the law, and we are ataking police? no, we are attacking bad police. they should be subject to the
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within self contained well systems and using state of the art monitoring technologies, rigorous practices help ensure our operations are safe and clean for our communities and the environment we are america's natural gas. two months ago, texas governor announced he would hole a major prayer rally. it was supposed to be a grand entrance for perry. a day it help pit him on the political stage. now just hours way from the event calls, the response, is called a political nightmare. he is running from the event he planned. the event he organized. recently saying, quote, i'm going to be there, i may be ushering for all i know. the reason he's running away, the extreme loges with radical and fringe beliefs who signed on to this. there's the preacher who thinks
the statue of liberty is a demonic idol. the supposedly nonpartisan's vent who thinks the party is quote an invisible network of evil. and the endorser organization, that worries the government may implant microchips in americans' brains. today civil rights groups attack perry for blurring the lines of church and state. >> there is no part of the texas governor's job description that says, lead people from san antonio to dallas to jesus. he's not pastoring a church. called the lone star state. joining me now, texas pastor, reverend freddie haines and michelle, a reporter from the daily beast. michelle recently wrote an article about rick perry's
divine. what do you in texas, utah, think about this event? >> well, we are quite disappointed that the governor instead of governing he, he wants to on our prayer warrior. i hope the response tomorrow will be to repent. repent for voter suppression. report for the gap in texas. he brags about having the most millionaires but doesn't address the fact that we lead the nation in terms of children and poverty. drop-out rate among texas public schools is sinful. so there should be some repittens taking place as opposed to this gathering together. as matter of fact, isaiah 58, if they haven't edited it out of their bible, says that you treat the oppressed, that the state the poor right. and in texas we incarcerate the impoverished pb if anything
there needs it to be a repittens tomorrow. >> michelle, there is a lot of controversy, a lot of questionable figures that have been identified with this. so much so that governor perry seems to be doing the michael jackson moon walk away from his event. is this a major stumble for him coming out on the national political field? >> i think if perry is trying to introduce himself to the nation as a whole, he has gone about it in a very questionable way. as you know this isn't just about him talking about his religion for christian beliefs or whatever. there are a lot of people involved here including john haggee who john mccaine took a lot of heat for. he accepted that endorsement. base he has come outs with not just can't eye catholic statements but you know, all kinds of interesting things to say about muslims as well. so he is have picked
controversial figures. but if you are trying to introduce yourself as a whole fot t.o. the nation that will cause problems. ep. let's take a look at this. >> unlike some organizers of governor perry's rally i don believe our nation is under a course because we have welcomed nonchristians a and gay people into full rights and citizenship in america. i don't favor renaming the city in which i work. washington, d.c., the district of christ. i don't plef that god punishes people with bad weather. however some of his cosponsors clearly do and they articulate it very publicly and did so before he chose them for their leadership roles. >> now reverend haines, you and i worked together at national network and other groups. it is not about your
anti-religion. in fact, the contrary. but how does governor perry get away from this and what can he do that would make it appear that he's not playing extreme right wing poll things but that he is really interested in prayer? >> again, as has been stated, who has been included in this rally is enough to make us tremble. persons who talk about, again, the weather as indicative of god's judgment. well, here i am in texas where we have there a stage of draught. we have days of 100 plus degrees of weather. is this is not alternative site. this makes us question whether the governor is serious. what the governor must do as for as i'm concern said cease this opportunity to say, okay, if we are going to pray or fast when eats go it as isaiah 58 says we
ought to do. this have a democracy. we're inclusive of all. but in our prayer and fasting, may we be concerned of the plight of those who are poor, let's be concerned about public endcation. cutting for those who suffer the most. i think the governor must em prois broois brais that in the fact the bible i read, prayer and fasting always go with justice and service. >> michelle, there's also reports that early ticket takers are much lower than the capacity of the stadium. what happens if there is low turn out for moderate turn out? what is the impact for perry? >> i think you will look at lowering of expectations. we are talking about football stadium here. i think they were initially projecting about 8,000 people
which won't be even close to filling up this place. but perry is trying to stress. this is not a political event. he is trying to back pedal in certain ways with this. but i think you know, if you're going to be purely cenacle about the politics of this, you have to keep in mind that in the republican primaries in particular you always have pandering to very conservative groups. we go to bob jones university every cycle. a lot of that causes, but as you get further into the race everybody just nods and assumed, well they have to tp even if this bites him right now, my guess is that later on he will be able to brush it off. >> michelle i'm a conservative preacher. i'm trying to conserve. we rights, volter rights, i'm trying to conserve a lot of things. he didn't invite me. thank you both and have a great weekend.
first, he exposed the myth of global warming. then he blew the lid off the liberal conspiracy against christianity. now presidential wannabe rick santorum's educating the american public about the very, very scary world. of preschool. >> it's the parents' responsibility to educate their children. it's not the government's job. of course the government wants their hands on the children as fast as they can. that's where there's ear i starts and preearly starts and early, early starts. they want your children from the womb so they can indoctrine ate them into exactly the kind of people they want them to be. i'm against that. >> oh, no, parents, please
listen up. if your child is in preschool or is r in that radical head start program. get them out now. you just left your kids in the socialist machine. that's brain washing them to do crazy things, like sing songs, play games, even take naps. they're indoctrinating your children, teaching them the ideas of sharing. your thoughts? you thought they were learning their abcs. but no, that's just the government teaching them how to spell socialism. just look at snack time. every kid is eating the same time. no more, no less. the government is clearly getting their hands on your children and look at the boongs they're reading. the giving tree. there they go again with giving. and green egg answers ham. no surprise. they are using